Meet the WISE 鈥� Jennifer van den Berg
Postdoc at Industrial Engineering and Innovation Sciences
We want to put our members in the spotlight! For the Meet the WISE series, we interview WISE members in different stages of their careers across the university. We hope that their stories, experiences and career paths can be an inspiration to other women at 黑料福利网.
Hello! Could you please introduce yourself and the research that you're doing?
I'm Jennifer. I'm a postdoctoral researcher at IE&IS, though I feel more part of IS, I guess. I am part of the group ITEM, which stands for 'innovation, technology entrepreneurship and marketing'. I'm part of that group and the odd one out as well, because my research is on psychological safety within a technical domain. So, I'm investigating psychological safety at ASML.
I did my PhD here a few years ago, also with the same research group, on the topic of organizational resilience in healthcare. And there I found that psychological safety, trust, you know, it's important if you want to look at human interactions, how people can collaborate in the most effective way.
Can you explain the topic of psychological safety a bit more?
Psychological safety is a little bit different from social safety. Social safety is more about being physically unsafe, or somebody abusing you mentally or physically, and you should be protected from that. Psychological safety is important in situations where social safety is there, but still, sometimes you do not feel exactly safe to mention a certain topic, because you are afraid that someone is going to judge you for it. Psychological safety, to me, also plays a role in a lot of grey areas.
For example, in academia, like the co-authorship thing, there are a lot of unwritten rules about it. I once had a situation where I was wondering if someone should be with the name on a paper, and this person thought, I didn't write anything, but I was at the meeting, and I said something, so I should be included. And because there are no actual rules about it, it can still feel unsafe to raise these issues. In terms of social safety, there is no problem, because it's not like this person attacked me or threatened me. But still, I felt uncomfortable and not entirely safe to address the issue.
Why did you decide to pursue a PhD?
Well, it's sort of both an interest and also a bit opportunistic, I would say. I did my master's thesis at RIVM, which is the Dutch Institute for Public Health. And there I discovered that doing research suited me quite well. My supervisor there also said: You should do a PhD. And as I'm always in doubt about what I should do, I thought, OK, maybe that's a path to look into. And then I applied for this position at 黑料福利网. Not necessarily because I thought 黑料福利网 is the greatest university. Initially, the university didn't really suit me because it is very technical, and I don't have a technical background at all. But the topic at that time really drew my attention. So initially the topic was to find a blueprint for a sustainable organization, which relates to my background, sustainability, which is a bit different from what I'm into now.
But yes, it was really the topic that actually led me here. And then the freedom, that you can work on a topic for a long time, that you could really dive into and become an expert in a certain topic - that really interested me. But if I would do it again, I don't know.
Is that due to a change in interest, or is it part of academia in general?
It's not the topic, but it's more academia. When we're talking about psychological safety, I feel there is still a lot to learn in the academic context as well. And that feels a bit uncomfortable, that I'm supposed to investigate psychological safety in another organisation. But if I want to work on that topic within my own organization, or if I'm sometimes critical about it, I feel like I don't get anywhere with the stuff I want to say, because I'm also in a hierarchically powerless position. As a PhD, you know the hierarchy, but as a postdoc, you're still not any further on the ladder. You're still temporary, and you're still not part of the staff. I think there are a lot of good intentions from everyone, but because of the system and how it works, the basic conditions are not well organized for a postdoc: temporary contracts, having no development plan, and not really knowing where you belong between the PhDs and permanent staff members. So, I think there can still be a lot improved. And that's where I want to help. Because I think that we should have a broader perspective than just I'm a researcher, just doing my research, and then I go back home, and that's it.
How did you become involved in WISE?
I think I was already involved during my PhD. But when I left the university, I still kept in touch and was allowed to visit the WISE events, because I still wanted to think along about topics for females in university. I remember meeting interesting people and opening up about the sensitive parts within academic life, while also receiving support from the audience at that moment. So, I remember that community feeling and being able to open up.
You are also the author of a book. What is the story behind that?
I've written journals, or diaries, since I was 9. And at some point, I was looking back at these journals, and I saw this whole narrative of my personal development; stuff that I didn't remember, actually, that I had experienced. I've already been for a long time very focused on personal development, trying out new stuff to get to work on myself, which is, of course, very much a thing of today. Nowadays, we have all these therapies and coaching sessions to be the best version of ourselves. It's what I've been looking into the last few years, and I've written it all down. And then I was walking around with this idea in my head: should I do something with this? Because maybe other women who struggle with the same things or the same life path that I had, maybe they can get some support from my story or some recognition. I just collected it all in this book, and I also concluded the book with my reflections on the specific period that I'm talking about.
And I think it also connects back to my research topic of psychological safety. It's my personal drive to create this culture here at this university. But also by setting this example myself: I'm opening up with this book, I'm showing the vulnerable side of life, and hopefully that also invites other people to do the same. And if we do that without judging each other, then what you're creating, while having the conversation, is psychological safety.
As your book is not yet published, do you have any other book recommendations for people who are interested in the topic?
One I am referring to a lot, I guess everyone knows her, is Bren茅 Brown. Because this is exactly the topic she deals with: vulnerability, showing empathy, and being courageous. I have one of her books called 'The Power of Vulnerability'. But she also has a lot of podcasts and videos; she is a good speaker, so it might be interesting to listen to that as well.
Lastly, what are your hopes for women in academia?
I think it applies to women and men, but I think the whole academic system needs to change. Now we have this system, which is focused on competition, where you have to work so hard to just get somewhere. I think we have to dial it down a bit and recognize that scientists are also people. Also, I think we should not be looking for the perfect academic who can do it all: the education, the teaching, getting the grants, etc. But rather acknowledge that some are better at getting the grants, some are better at research, and some are better at education. We should allow them to focus on a few of these paths and not expect them to work 80 hours to do it all, if they have a 40-hour contract. In the end, this will only result in burnout, and it already does.
For female scientists, especially, there needs to be more acceptance and normalization of the female process, like getting pregnant, entering menopause, and the menstrual cycle in general. I think we should consider that the work can be adapted to the person instead of adapting ourselves to the mold of having to do everything and having to be perfect. Probably, this is too idealistic, but that's what I would like to see happening.