Meet the WISE 鈥� Anne Floor den Ouden
We want to put our members in the spotlight! For the Meet the WISE series, we interview WISE members in different stages of their careers across the university. We hope that their stories, experiences and career paths can be an inspiration to other women at 黑料福利网.
Hello! Can you introduce yourself and the kind of research that you're doing at 黑料福利网?
I'm Anne Floor. Most people call me Floor because it's a bit shorter. I am a PhD student in the physical chemistry group at the chemistry department, and I do theoretical and fundamental work on polymers and colloidal systems. I solve mathematics, run computations and compare them to the experimental work of others. Currently, I'm looking at the self-assembly of block copolymer micelles using theoretical methods like self-consistent field theory or analytical equations.
We saw that your master's thesis was nominated for the 黑料福利网 academic awards. Congratulations! Who nominated you, and how was the experience?
I got nominated by the director of education of our department, and then I had to write a CV, and my supervisor had to write a letter of recommendation. It was a fun experience. I think getting the initial e-mail was maybe the most fun, because I had just never considered that my master's thesis would be good enough. I knew I got a good grade, but that it could be considered to be one of the best ones of our department... I just never really considered it before.
Why have you decided to continue doing a PhD in this field?
I really like it, because I essentially get to solve difficult puzzles every day. And by doing it in a theoretical way, I eliminate some of the randomness that you experience in a lab. I really enjoy that the boundaries of my work are quite clear. In this somewhat 鈥榠maginary world鈥�, I get to put all the rules, whereas with experimental work, I feel like you are a bit more exposed to the elements of randomness.
I actually knew the group and my supervisors already from my master's thesis, and I think the environment they've created is very stimulating and nurturing. You can get quite a lot of freedom to explore what you enjoy, you get good guidance, and personal development is also very important, next to scientific development.
You did your bachelor's and master's at 黑料福利网. What convinced you to stay here?
Actually, I'm not super proud of the fact that I did everything at 黑料福利网. We have this super international community here, and for most people, you can really see that it brings a lot of personal development to step outside of your comfort zone, to live on your own, far away from your support network. I think that's super admirable. So for me, the main reason for staying was timing. The project that I'm doing is super fun. I think that was a really big deciding factor. There is also the fact that the connection between the Netherlands and Vienna is relatively good. My boyfriend is also doing a PhD, and he is one year ahead of me, so I already knew he was going to be in Vienna when I was making my career decision. I actually regret a bit not doing more internationally oriented things in my bachelor's, master's, or PhD.
We're actually interviewing you while you are in Vienna. How do you combine a long-distance relationship and travelling back and forth between Eindhoven and Vienna, with your PhD research?
I think one of the big benefits of doing a PhD is that you can be relatively flexible, especially if you don't have to be in a lab. I just need a lot of research papers and my laptop, and then I'm set. We have a really nice rhythm going, where I go to Vienna once every two months, and my boyfriend visits me in Eindhoven in the other months. He is doing a PhD in theoretical physics, so it's a bonus that we're both theoreticians.
It is also thanks to my supervisors. If they would not be OK with it, it would be very difficult. And for example, in the teaching season I am just in Eindhoven, so that I can support my professors then.
What do your supervisors do 鈥榬ight鈥� that makes it so enjoyable for you to work with them?
I have indeed a nice duo, Mark Vis and Remco Tuinier. I think they have a really nice open-door policy. For me, that's lovely, but an open-door policy only works if the people who should be coming in through the door feel safe and encouraged to do so. I think they have done that very well. I feel like they create a supportive environment where I am allowed to explore my own thoughts. But if I'm stuck or need input, I can ask, and they will also provide it. I feel like I'm in an environment where I'm allowed to make mistakes, and if I do so, I won't be punished, but I will be guided back onto the right track.
How have you experienced the first year of your PhD?
Actually, starting the PhD was a really big relief, because I finally got paid for what I did. Because of the Dutch political decisions regarding loan systems, I was on a quite tight financial budget in my master's thesis.
I quite enjoyed my first year. I was lucky to have some colleagues who told me: in the first year, it鈥檚 just important to learn a lot and to see what you're interested in. Now that I'm approaching my anniversary, I'm feeling a bit more stressed, because now you can start looking back: what have I actually achieved in one year of my PhD? And then if you do the mental math: this and then three more times, would that equal a PhD thesis? I think the answer is no. But I also think learning throughout your PhD trajectory is not linear, which I just keep telling myself, and I wait for the nonlinearity to kick in soon.
And is there something that you have been surprised by? Something that you weren't expecting?
Oh, that's a very interesting question. What I was quite surprised by is that it's kind of hard knowing that all the people you're becoming friends with will leave you at a certain point. Because a PhD is four years, you are very aware of when your friends will leave you for other jobs. Obviously, you'll still see them, but not as colleagues and much less regularly. It was very much a surprise that I actually don't like this at all.
Do you have a role model you look up to?
I don't think I have a clear scientific role model or mentor. But somewhat of an inspiration, or a person I would like to become, is my grandma, actually. She studied chemistry as well, but then gave it up because my grandpa was in the Marines. She stayed home to have a family, but she is one of the most intelligent women I know. When I talk to her about my job, I just know that she would have really enjoyed my job as well. She just didn't have the choice at that point as much as I do now. I feel privileged that I am in a situation where I can do this job that I am so enjoying.
How did you join the WISE network?
Our research group has a very large percentage of women at the moment. One of our support staff members is quite a fan of the WISE network. Every time she gets invited to an event, she sends it to everybody. So when I met her one morning while walking to my office, she said: Will you join me at this event? I obviously said yes, and I really enjoyed it. I haven't been around so long, so I haven't joined a lot of things, but it was really a good experience to see women from other departments. Because in your PhD, you're kind of in your own bubble usually.
Why do you think it's important to have an organization like WISE?
I think I was quite lucky throughout my career. I haven't felt like I was held by my gender or favoured because of my gender. I think that's quite a privileged situation to be in. Maybe I had it quite easy because I'm a Dutch woman at a Dutch university. I think I have a relatively easy time speaking up because of the more direct Dutch culture. I would like everybody to have such an experience, not just women, but also people from different cultures who are struggling more than I am. So every step towards more equality is a very good one, and I think WISE is a nicely organised way to make good steps in this direction.
A question we like to ask is, if you have a recommendation for a book, an article, or a podcast?
I am now in the middle of a book, I got it from my office mate who just finished her PhD. It's called 鈥淓ducated鈥� by Tara Westover. I don't know whether it will continue to be good, but until halfway, I would definitely recommend it.
Regarding your future, do you have hopes and dreams for yourself?
I just really hope that I can keep enjoying my work, because you're doing it for 40 hours a week. I don't really know if I want it to be in industry or in academia, but I would like to challenge myself and also go abroad at least once in my life, and then overcome the personal challenges that that brings.